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 Post subject: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:53 pm 
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Anybody think Stoa is a little bit racist? I hear derogatory remarks made towards people of different ethnicities in rounds, for example last year in a parli round someone referred to Hispanic-Americans as "those people who keep our lawns nice and pick the fruit", and other incidents that I can't specifically recall but were pretty racist...in general it seems as though possibly the conservatism in our league may have a negative side when it comes to the way we talk about race.
I want to be clear-I am not saying most people in stoa are racist, nor am I trying to call out any particular group of people in stoa. I just feel like in general, stoa seems mostly a white-friendly league. I could be wrong but that's kind of the vibe I get at tournaments. I'm white myself by the way.
So to sum up in rounds, and just generally I think we may do a better job of making sure minorities are welcomed into the league as well as making sure we don't make offensive remarks during rounds-I've probably done this at some point myself but that's wrong and we need to do our best to avoid those kind of remarks or stereotypes during rounds and outside of rounds. Fair point?


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Moved to Stoa Discussion.

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Andrew

Barndt/Barndt | TACT, R10 | 2012-13
Barndt/Barndt | TACT, R10 | 2013-14
Barndt/Barndt | TACT, R10 | 2014-15
Barndt/Blacklock | Arete, R10 | 2015-16
Barndt/Cuddeback | R10 | 2016-17
Barndt/Wolf | SALT, R10 | 2017-18

JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
I'm inclined to think like Andrew does.


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:15 pm 
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is jealous
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Unfortunately this is a huge problem, from what I've seen. In particular, there were a lot of anti-Arab comments in the past couple years with foreign military topics. One team in my area actually ran a case to nuke Mecca on the justification that it was a Muslim holy city and we should do that to somehow promote Christianity (no kidding, that happened. At more than one tournament too :roll: ).
Additionally, there's a lot of anti-Democratic comments that I've seen throughout rounds. Most of those are based on the assumption that all Christian homeschoolers must be Conservative, but that's very untrue, plus what about the community judges?! :P

I'm not innocent in this, I used to make some comments like that just out of ignorance, but we need to make sure the kids in the league understand that other people have different perspectives. As I got older and more experienced, I learned that I shouldn't do make those kind of comments, but some kids never learn. It's mostly an awareness issue. We, as Christians, should not be making blatantly offensive comments against other races and ideals. It seems like common sense, but we (as parents, coaches, or just fellow debaters) ought to really make sure the competitors know that this is not okay.

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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:52 pm 
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melancholy milkshakes. no straws.
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There will always be some level of this both in Stoa and in NCFCA because of their conservative members. Typically, the most ignorant remarks are made by the inexperienced debaters and unseasoned speakers, who grasp for things to say and sometimes say things they don't mean or they regret later. We've all said and done dumb things in the past, and I can only hope the general response in both Stoa and NCFCA is kind and loving correction by coaches, judges, and peers. Otherwise, the problem may be more deeply rooted, and that would be troubling.

We should all make a point to correct these things when we see them.

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I took the one less traveled
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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am 
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ShaynePC wrote:
I never noticed this in my region, but Reg10n is probably one of the more largely diverse regions. We have a lot of students of Asian descent, several black competitors, and a mix of other ethnicities. Still largely Caucasian, but the ratio is much higher.

Then we moved to a deep south region, and I heard flat out horrible racist comments from competitors, including high-profile NCFCAers and even some siblings of HSDers.


Region 7? I'm as deep in the south as you can get, and I've never found anyone in the region that I would classify as even mildly racist. That's very surprising to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:03 am 
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I have been involved with Stoa for 8 years. I don't think it is racist. I think a minority of people make insensitive comments. There's a big difference.

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The NCFCA board has just announced that they will create a grand army to counter the increasing threats of the separatists.


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:42 am 
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melancholy milkshakes. no straws.
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Doubleturn wrote:
I have been involved with Stoa for 8 years. I don't think it is racist. I think a minority of people make insensitive comments. There's a big difference.

I haven't been competing in a while, but this was my impression in NCFCA as well.

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Two roads diverged in a wood and I -
I took the one less traveled
And that has made all the difference


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:22 am 
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Hint hint peoples.
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lookingforangels wrote:
Doubleturn wrote:
I have been involved with Stoa for 8 years. I don't think it is racist. I think a minority of people make insensitive comments. There's a big difference.

I haven't been competing in a while, but this was my impression in NCFCA as well.

Bingo. Both of you put it well. Seeing as I've been in both leagues and have competed for seven years now, I feel safe to say that from my experience, both Stoa and NCFCA are absolutely not racist. Just because there happens to be a lot of white people in both groups does not make them racist. I know of several African-American, Asian, and Latino people competing in Stoa who won national titles.

Having said that, there are definitely some people who have rather insensitive viewpoints. It's too bad that there are still some people who believe preposterous things with regards to race. Those would be the "racists." Not Stoa. Not NCFCA. Neither of the groups have institutionalized racism. Now if the culture surrounding forensics is racist, that's a whole new dimension to consider. But I don't think that's the problem either. There is a very small minority of people who hold some strange positions. That's it.

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As the deer pants for the water brooks, so pants my soul for You, O God. -Psalm 42:1


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:54 pm 
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By the way, a low percentage of white people would not mean less racism. I'm not white and I worked in a non-white neighborhood for a long time. I guarantee you, that other ethnicities are capable of racism. Thus, pointing to the large amount of whites in Stoa as a sign of potential racism is misguided.

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The NCFCA board has just announced that they will create a grand army to counter the increasing threats of the separatists.


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:54 pm 
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<Nondebater pokes head in>

As pointed out by others, it is important that we carefully select our words. Saying "[NCFCA|Stoa] is racist" means that the institution itself is designed to be or to condone racism. Although I'm not actively involved with either organization, I think I can confidently say that neither organization is systemically preferring one "race" over another. Saying "there exist [NCFCA|Stoa] competitors who are racists" is an entirely different matter (and is, unfortunately, a statement that is most likely true, simply due to the size of the organizations). I think it's more productive to discuss this latter statement, rather than the former.

An interesting study/discussion would be "are conservative homeschoolers more likely to be racially/religiously prejudiced than their non-homeschooled counterparts?" But, that is straying from the current topic.

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"The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits"
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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:39 pm 
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melancholy milkshakes. no straws.
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There's a huge difference between structural racism and apathy toward racism, and I think both leagues could potentially be guilty of the latter, to at least mild degrees, but are almost certainly innocent of the former.

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Joe Hughey
joehughey24@gmail.com

Two roads diverged in a wood and I -
I took the one less traveled
And that has made all the difference


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:53 pm 
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I written long rants on a couple ballots because someone in round made disparaging remarks about low-income individuals, which is a population I work with at my job every day (I think I voted against them too, although not for that). I've never really noticed anything racist, although my sample size for the last couple years has been incredibly small and there hasn't been a foreign topic that would incite racism.

I'm sure this year will be different. If I saw a case like what you said above to nuke Mecca, I would probably instantly drop the aff, give them 10 speaks, and read my phone for every one of their speeches after that (the phone part is a performance of my belief that nothing they have to say in the round is worth listening to, since I'm not allowed to walk out of the room like I would in a college round).

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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:31 pm 
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I doubt it's specific or unique to Stoa. But yes, while competing and judging ignorance and prejudice was not uncommon. To wit;

-The illegal immigration year was just an embarrassment. Frankly I wanted to walk out of finals. It was a joke.
-Anti-Arab sentiment/Islamophobia was not uncommon either discussing issues of national security or democratic governance.
-Absurd Civil War revisionism, bordering on pro-slavery nonsense. I distinctly remember judging someone who based their whole neg strat against the value of freedom on slavery apologia.
-Sometimes odd comments towards my competitors like, "Why should I care about your application of Cesar Chavez?" or comments about "that black girl" on our team (She was Dominican).

It's really not the norm but there is definitely a subcurrent of it that goes largely tolerated.

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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:15 pm 
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There are racist people in Stoa and NCFCA, which doesn't make either league racist. The most offensive stuff I've seen is the anti-Middle Eastern comments... I've seen nuke Mecca run a lot a lot of times, by different teams and clubs.

But racism isn't limited to conservatives or white people. Based on what I've seen, it's really more of a geographical and social problem than a political or racial one. Until I moved to where I currently live, I hadn't really encountered a lot of racism. This little town has some problems, though. The population is over 45% Latino, but within that you have two major groups; those who've been here for generations and the more recent immigrants. They even speak obviously different strains of Spanish. (Those from Mexico say that the locals speak a "corrupted" tongue and "use bad language," or "don't even speak Spanish, it's just Spanglish." The reality is that it's just the natural changes that occur to a language spoken in a geographically isolated region over several hundred years). And those two groups don't get along hardly at all. But both groups, and the local been-here-awhile whites, tend to be biased against blacks.
You have to say something really, really bad to even get someone to notice that you said something racist, because it's just become normal.
The funny thing is that the black guys all seem to only date white girls. This is pertinent to me, because a work night when a black guy doesn't hit on me is rare. And there aren't even that many of them.

Anyway. My point is, there are racist people everywhere. Organizations like Stoa can't help having members that reflect, at least to some extent, the ideologies of the general population in their area. Racism is worse in the south; Stoa's members in the south are going to be more likely to be racist. There are pockets like my little town where racism is an issue; Stoa members from such areas will probably at least be less sensitive to racism.

We should be committed to making a positive impact on the mindsets of our fellow Stoans and those in our community by first watching our own words; it's too easy to slip into habits picked up from peers; and second by not tolerating racism from others. Don't be mean about it; often people don't realize how offensive their words are; but don't let it slide by, either. As Edmund Burke put it, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Hint hint peoples.
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ShaynePC wrote:
I know people who would say there is little to no racism in your town, though, because racism only works from white people to minorities.


Image

I concur with Shayne. Thanks for relating your experiences and your wise words, Bee.

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As the deer pants for the water brooks, so pants my soul for You, O God. -Psalm 42:1


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 Post subject: Re: Racism in Stoa
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:56 pm 
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Bumble! Bumble!
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ShaynePC wrote:
Bee, you rarely comment anymore but I always always find you a voice of intelligence and reason.
Evan wrote:
I concur with Shayne. Thanks for relating your experiences and your wise words, Bee.
Thanks, guys. :)
ShaynePC wrote:
I know people who would say there is little to no racism in your town, though, because racism only works from white people to minorities.
:| Ask them if the Rwandan genocide was an act of racism. Very few people actually believe that racism only works one way if you take the time to probe a bit. Although they will probably say that the majority of US problems with racism are due to white people. (Which is undoubtedly true, since the majority of the people in the US are white. :P)

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