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 Post subject: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:36 am 
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What is a brink?


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:43 am 
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It's basically how close we are to making a disadvantage happen.

Example:

Link: Aff's plan hurts Russia relations.
Brink: One slight harm in relations will cause Russia to set off it's nukes.
Impact: Nuclear war.

^ Totally hypothetical disadvantage, but that's the basic idea.

And I'm sure somebody else could explain it more technically and eloquently, but that's how I think of it.

::Edit:: Yeah, there's a better explanation of disad structure on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4406

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:48 am 
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I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between a brink and a link. Could someone expand on the difference?


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:11 am 
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Think of it like this.

SQ is a man on a cliff.

The link is what pushes him towards the edge. The brink establishes that the link is enough to push the man off the cliff completely. And the impact is the sharp rocks at the bottom of the cliff.


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:02 am 
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Flash of light wrote:
Think of it like this.

SQ is a man on a cliff.

The link is what pushes him towards the edge. The brink establishes that the link is enough to push the man off the cliff completely. And the impact is the sharp rocks at the bottom of the cliff.


Shouldn't the link be enough to push the man off of the cliff?


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:21 am 
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Brilliantdebater wrote:
Flash of light wrote:
Think of it like this.

SQ is a man on a cliff.

The link is what pushes him towards the edge. The brink establishes that the link is enough to push the man off the cliff completely. And the impact is the sharp rocks at the bottom of the cliff.


Shouldn't the link be enough to push the man off of the cliff?


By definition, no. Ideally you could find a piece of evidence that encompasses both the link and the brink (and even the impact) in one card, but there is a delineation.

For example: Link = Aff plan hurts relations

Impact = Bad relations with Russia = nuclear war.

And now we're asking, "Wait, any relations hurting that goes on means nuclear war? I don't think so!"

The brink is necessary, therefor, to say that "relations have hit an all-time low, and any further damage to the relationship would be irreversible."

I hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:06 am 
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Brilliantdebater wrote:
I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between a brink and a link.
Actually, there's not technically a difference. In fact, brinks are often called internal links.

To apply this to the man-on-a-cliff analogy:

Link #1: the person is pushed.
Link #2: when the person is pushed, he falls off a cliff. (What if he is actually 100 feet from the edge and the force only pushes him 1 foot? Link #2 is necessary.)
Link #3: when he falls, he lands hundreds of feet below the cliff. (This seems obvious, but what if the "cliff" is really the curb of a sidewalk? That would kill the DA, or at least turn it from a terminally impacted DA into a weakly impacted one. Link #3 is necessary.)
Impact: he dies.

Basically, think of a DA as a chain of events. A chain has links. The plan is connected to the first link. The first link is connected to the second link by an internal link, a.k.a. a brink. The second is connected to the third, and so on. The last link is connected to the impact.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:11 am 
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Yeah, the brink is really just another link, albeit with a slightly different purpose. Also, remember, not all DAs need brinks.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:32 am 
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The brink is not another link. The brink is the point at which the impact occurs.

For simple "what does X mean?" questions, I would suggest http://commfaculty.fullerton.edu/jbrusc ... _bible.htm as a good starting point.


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:52 am 
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The Great White Sharc
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It's a link insofar as it is another chain in the logical progression of thought from plan to impact.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:10 am 
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That's not what a link is, so that doesn't make it a link. Additionally, by that logic, pants are a car insofar as its another chain in the progression from home to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:44 am 
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boredguy8 wrote:
Additionally, by that logic, pants are a car insofar as its another chain in the progression from home to work.
We're dealing with types of objects, not identities of objects. A pair of pants and a car are both instances of a category of objects: objects that enable you to go to work. Putting on pants and driving a care are both instances of a category of actions: actions that enable you to go to work.

In a DA, links and brinks are both instances of a category of arguments: arguments that prove that a plan causes an impact.

EDIT: I see where you're going: a link and a brink are different types of "links" in the chain of events. In other words: a "link" (in the chain) can be either a "link" (type of argument) or a "brink" (type of argument). My understanding of a link was that a link is any argument which proves that one event leads to another.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:55 am 
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The Great White Sharc
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I understand the definitional difference, I'm just not entirely convinced the distinction between the two is incredibly useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:56 pm 
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013 wrote:
I understand the definitional difference, I'm just not entirely convinced the distinction between the two is incredibly useful.

If you don't cross the threshold, you don't have an impact, regardless of how many things are pushing/pulling. The only time it's not useful is if you have a linear disad.

Suppose you found the following two cards:

"By recognizing the the Hu corollary to the Monroe Doctrine and withdrawing from intervention in Russian and ASEAN issues, Obama can signal respect for China's growing influence--a respect many in the CCP think is sorely missing on the other side of the Pacific. Such a signal of mutual respect can mend the current rift in Sino-American relations."

"Obama's recent declarations in India have pushed relations between China and the US to a breaking point. The world is watching, and Hu and the rest of the CCP know it. If Obama fails to restore good ties before his return home to the United States, it will be too late for reconciliation."

The first card says what can mend the relations. This is a link card. The second card says why action must be taken now. The second card is neither a link card (it says nothing about what will restore relations) nor an internal link card (it doesn't 'lead' to any further impact) nor an impact card (it just says 'why now').

Without the brink card, the disad becomes something that can be done after plan. So say plan is Chechnya and you read the link card without the brink. I just say, "Plan solves for people dying immediately, there's no timeframe on the disad. We can intervene now and apologize later and do something else to restore relations, so we win." With the brink card, you cut out the "and apologize later" component, because that's no longer an option. You have a reason why now is the key time in Sino-American relations, so their action triggers the disad.

If that's not useful, I don't know what is.


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 Post subject: Re: Brinks
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:31 am 
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A brink says that the degree to which the link occurs is enough to trigger the impact.

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