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 Post subject: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Hey guys!
I am a novice debater and was recently at a tourney where someone mentioned parametrics debate. (I'm spelling parametrics wrong...) I tired to look up a definition on the internet... but it sounded like normal debate..... so could someone explain what it means... or if "normal" debate actually is parametrics?
Very confused,
twizzlerz

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Could a Higher Mod Than I move this into Debate Theory?

Actually, there have been several good discussions about parametrics (you were spelling it right, your spell checker is just dumb) on these boards. Here are some good topics to check out:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8255
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5399
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7709

Some are more advanced than others. The second is probably the best one to check out. Let us know if you have any more questions.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Someone please correct me, as I've only been able to learn by reading everyones discussions on the subject:

Parametrics is like a boundary set by the resolution. Its a limit for aff/neg ground to keep everyone debating mostly the same topic. This year, our boundary is the environment. (Not that that's really a boundary this year :P) This will exclude cases/arguments regarding Illegal Immigration, NATO, etc.

Having answered that: This is the wrong forum :P

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:16 pm 
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^ I could have sworn that was called the resolution.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Kohiotoko wrote:
Could a Higher Mod Than I move this into Debate Theory?


Done.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:27 pm 
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revgirl wrote:
^ I could have sworn that was called the resolution.


I don't do TP.... but I thought that was called topicality. Could someone please explain these long words?

EDIT: ok, nevermind, I got it.


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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Wait a sec. I thought parametrics was the idea that once the AFF picks an area of environmental policy, environmental policy is redefined as that area. For example... if I run carbon tax, I redefine enviro policy as carbon tax. Justification for this is to prevent random counterwarrants (e.g., we shouldn't change our environmental policy because if we deregulate GHGs, blah blah blah) and gives the neg ground for "topical" CPs.

At least... that's what I thought.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:24 pm 
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In parametrics, the resolution is an indefinite set of plans that must be narrowed to one plan if the affirmative team doesn't want to implicitly run all of them and lose to disadvantages (e.g. DAs to forcing people to dump as much toxic waste as possible into national parks). In parametrics, the resolution is not a statement that must be resolved by an example.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:23 pm 
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To be concise: Parametrics (in relation to counter plans at least) basically says: "judge is voting for case, not rez." After aff presents 1AC, they have specifically defined the ground they want to defend, and anything outside that is free game for a neg CP. Whether the CP is within the bounds of the resolution or not is totally irrelevant because aff case has in essence become the "resolution".
Parametrics basically give the neg more ground to run CPs from. However, it is absolutely ridiculously crucial that neg CPs be mutually exclusive in order to be legit. Neg CP has to be a reason to reject affirmative legislation.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:53 am 
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Yeah, for those of you defining parametrics (starting with Jacob) as Topicality, the rez, etc. I have this to say: Parametrics is a theory.

That said, read the last three posts ;)

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:16 pm 
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andrewmin wrote:
Wait a sec. I thought parametrics was the idea that once the AFF picks an area of environmental policy, environmental policy is redefined as that area. For example... if I run carbon tax, I redefine enviro policy as carbon tax. Justification for this is to prevent random counterwarrants (e.g., we shouldn't change our environmental policy because if we deregulate GHGs, blah blah blah) and gives the neg ground for "topical" CPs.

At least... that's what I thought.


This is my under standing of it as well. It basically is a thing that keeps the affirmative from having to change all environmental policies not just one. Some people run anwr but there is also kyoto and the reason is perametrics. Right?

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:54 pm 
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That's the parametrics theory, but I think that there's another explanation. I would say that in order to prove that we should change our environmental policy, we only need to prove that our environmental policy should be changed; we don't need to prove that ANWR should be opened up to prove the resolution, although if we did prove that, then that would prove the we should indeed change our environmental policy.

I think that that's a better, more common sense explanation than artificially restricting topicality.

A reason for theory > artificially adding theory "to make the round flow better"

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Simply put, parametrics is the theory that when the AFF team presents a case, the resolution is from that point on limited to that case. Many debaters say that this allows NEGs to run topical counterplans. This theory has several issues:

1. If the resolution and the AFF case become one after the 1AC, then there is no room to run topicality. Pick parametrics for your CPs or T: you can't have both.
2. Equivocation. You can't change the meaning of the term "resolution" after the AFF case is presented.
2. If the NEG runs a topical CP, then both AFF and NEG teams are affirming the original resolution, justifying an AFF ballot. There is no longer a NEG team to receive a win.

I would love to debate this issue further, because way too many have 'gone to the dark side' on this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:06 pm 
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^I like your thinking, my friend :)

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Joshtinian wrote:
If the resolution and the AFF case become one after the 1AC, then there is no room to run topicality. Pick parametrics for your CPs or T: you can't have both.
This logic is valid.
Joshtinian wrote:
Equivocation. You can't change the meaning of the term "resolution" after the AFF case is presented.
Good point.
Joshtinian wrote:
If the NEG runs a topical CP, then both AFF and NEG teams are affirming the original resolution, justifying an AFF ballot. There is no longer a NEG team to receive a win.
"Affirmative" means affirming the plan, not affirming the resolution. If the CP competes with the plan as the better alternative, then the plan is not affirmed -- it is negated, so the negative team wins.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Halogen wrote:
"Affirmative" means affirming the plan, not affirming the resolution.

Now that depends. I would argue the latter. Why should I be limited to affirming the resolution (within affirming my plan) when neg is only limited to negating my plan?

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:22 am 
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thehomeschooler wrote:
Why should I be limited to affirming the resolution (within affirming my plan) when neg is only limited to negating my plan?
For the sake of research, education, quality of debate, [insert choice topicality impacts], etc.

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:05 am 
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^I don't see any reason here for neg to have more ground than aff. All ground outside of the rez for CP material is quite enough :)

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:09 am 
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thehomeschooler wrote:
^I don't see any reason here for neg to have more ground than aff. All ground outside of the rez for CP material is quite enough :)
Isn't the resolution more limited than all policies in the world minus the resolution?

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 Post subject: Re: parametrics?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Totally. That means neg already has more ground than aff. There's no reason to expand that ground.

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